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	<title>Comments on: Not the Daily Show</title>
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	<link>http://www.rumorsdaily.com/2007/11/14/not-the-daily-show/</link>
	<description>Where old blogs die, come back to life, and then die again</description>
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		<title>By: Lorelei</title>
		<link>http://www.rumorsdaily.com/2007/11/14/not-the-daily-show/#comment-2248</link>
		<dc:creator>Lorelei</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Nov 2007 21:40:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rumorsdaily.com/2007/11/14/not-the-daily-show/#comment-2248</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s interesting that nobody&#039;s mentioned yet that TV writers (like actors, farm workers and lots of other per-project employees) face seasonal unemployment. As someone in a similar situation, I would personally be willing to accept less up front in exchange for a series of small payments later on, if such a structure existed. Seems like a strong argument for the residuals system. (Or for careful budgeting.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s interesting that nobody&#8217;s mentioned yet that TV writers (like actors, farm workers and lots of other per-project employees) face seasonal unemployment. As someone in a similar situation, I would personally be willing to accept less up front in exchange for a series of small payments later on, if such a structure existed. Seems like a strong argument for the residuals system. (Or for careful budgeting.)</p>
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		<title>By: Marc</title>
		<link>http://www.rumorsdaily.com/2007/11/14/not-the-daily-show/#comment-2242</link>
		<dc:creator>Marc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Nov 2007 17:40:12 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Do you think the authors should sell their books to the publishing studios for a one time fee?  

Anyone can hold a camera.  Anyone can be shown how to put on makeup.  Aren&#039;t that many that understand how to tap into that creative genius that is inside us.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Do you think the authors should sell their books to the publishing studios for a one time fee?  </p>
<p>Anyone can hold a camera.  Anyone can be shown how to put on makeup.  Aren&#8217;t that many that understand how to tap into that creative genius that is inside us.</p>
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		<title>By: Marc</title>
		<link>http://www.rumorsdaily.com/2007/11/14/not-the-daily-show/#comment-2241</link>
		<dc:creator>Marc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Nov 2007 17:14:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rumorsdaily.com/2007/11/14/not-the-daily-show/#comment-2241</guid>
		<description>I think we are missing the point.

Producers want to receive income forever on their product (Movie, TV Show)

They don&#039;t think the writers should.

Doesn&#039;t anyone else see the hypocrisy here??

My opinion the advertisers pay the producers, we pay the advertisers, so in the end the PUBLIC owns it, so it should be FREE after that.  mmm, makes sense to me!  There problem solved.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think we are missing the point.</p>
<p>Producers want to receive income forever on their product (Movie, TV Show)</p>
<p>They don&#8217;t think the writers should.</p>
<p>Doesn&#8217;t anyone else see the hypocrisy here??</p>
<p>My opinion the advertisers pay the producers, we pay the advertisers, so in the end the PUBLIC owns it, so it should be FREE after that.  mmm, makes sense to me!  There problem solved.</p>
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		<title>By: Lorelei</title>
		<link>http://www.rumorsdaily.com/2007/11/14/not-the-daily-show/#comment-2229</link>
		<dc:creator>Lorelei</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Nov 2007 01:37:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rumorsdaily.com/2007/11/14/not-the-daily-show/#comment-2229</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s true. Nothing says &quot;lack of motivation&quot; like making huge financial sacrifices for the sake of principle.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s true. Nothing says &#8220;lack of motivation&#8221; like making huge financial sacrifices for the sake of principle.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff</title>
		<link>http://www.rumorsdaily.com/2007/11/14/not-the-daily-show/#comment-2225</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Nov 2007 22:17:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rumorsdaily.com/2007/11/14/not-the-daily-show/#comment-2225</guid>
		<description>The interesting thing about the &quot;performance based compensation&quot; argument is that none of the other lines of work mentioned in that argument (like fund managers, producers, and salespeople) are unionized. They are professionals and they negotiate individually based on their ability and experience. Writers want to be professional, yet have the benefits of being part of labor as well. Well, which are you? Interchangeable working cogs who belong in a union, or professionals whose compensation should vary based on ability? 

This should be a negotiating point in individual contracts, not something decided at once for everybody who ever bothered to join your little union. And if you don&#039;t like the terms the hollywood corporations offer you, refuse to contract and get another job.  If you&#039;re worth residuals, you certainly should be capable of finding another good job. 

My lord, stop whining already, will you? The entire world would benefit greatly if you people would break up your union and compete with each other, so that those of you that actually can write are kept busy and the rest of you end up in other fields better suited to your talents. The crap writing in so many places is probably directly attributable to the existence of a &quot;writer&#039;s union&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The interesting thing about the &#8220;performance based compensation&#8221; argument is that none of the other lines of work mentioned in that argument (like fund managers, producers, and salespeople) are unionized. They are professionals and they negotiate individually based on their ability and experience. Writers want to be professional, yet have the benefits of being part of labor as well. Well, which are you? Interchangeable working cogs who belong in a union, or professionals whose compensation should vary based on ability? </p>
<p>This should be a negotiating point in individual contracts, not something decided at once for everybody who ever bothered to join your little union. And if you don&#8217;t like the terms the hollywood corporations offer you, refuse to contract and get another job.  If you&#8217;re worth residuals, you certainly should be capable of finding another good job. </p>
<p>My lord, stop whining already, will you? The entire world would benefit greatly if you people would break up your union and compete with each other, so that those of you that actually can write are kept busy and the rest of you end up in other fields better suited to your talents. The crap writing in so many places is probably directly attributable to the existence of a &#8220;writer&#8217;s union&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Brad</title>
		<link>http://www.rumorsdaily.com/2007/11/14/not-the-daily-show/#comment-2224</link>
		<dc:creator>Brad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Nov 2007 20:54:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rumorsdaily.com/2007/11/14/not-the-daily-show/#comment-2224</guid>
		<description>I am not opposed to writers asking for more for their work. If a studio thinks they are asking to much they can find a cheaper and maybe less talented provider. The more you pay the better product you get, yet another fact of life. If a studio wants to provide stock options that is great then all employees can benefit instead of just those that feel entitled. I honestly think no one should make extra cash after the job is done. This just adds chances for corruption and places for bean counters to fudge numbers. Oh and as far as unions go, even if such a thing existed for my field they could bite me as well. If you are good someone will pay you, if you are not they will find someone else. This applies to nut tightens as much as writers. Unions just help prop up the unmotivated and slackers. If your job does not pay what you think it should find a new one or live more frugally. If a studio wants to pay low wages they can. If that means they get a crappy product from a low bidder they will not be around long. This is just my take on things.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am not opposed to writers asking for more for their work. If a studio thinks they are asking to much they can find a cheaper and maybe less talented provider. The more you pay the better product you get, yet another fact of life. If a studio wants to provide stock options that is great then all employees can benefit instead of just those that feel entitled. I honestly think no one should make extra cash after the job is done. This just adds chances for corruption and places for bean counters to fudge numbers. Oh and as far as unions go, even if such a thing existed for my field they could bite me as well. If you are good someone will pay you, if you are not they will find someone else. This applies to nut tightens as much as writers. Unions just help prop up the unmotivated and slackers. If your job does not pay what you think it should find a new one or live more frugally. If a studio wants to pay low wages they can. If that means they get a crappy product from a low bidder they will not be around long. This is just my take on things.</p>
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		<title>By: DoorFrame</title>
		<link>http://www.rumorsdaily.com/2007/11/14/not-the-daily-show/#comment-2223</link>
		<dc:creator>DoorFrame</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Nov 2007 20:01:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rumorsdaily.com/2007/11/14/not-the-daily-show/#comment-2223</guid>
		<description>Troeltsch: Right, his argument would be fine if it was merely that residuals are not (or should not be) a good means of paying writers.  Instead, a slightly higher up front payment (shifting some risk away from the writers and onto the producers) would be a reasonable alternative.  

If his argument had been that, however, I doubt he would have concluded with &quot;Do your job, get paid, go home… shut the hell up.&quot;  I think his argument was that writers don&#039;t deserve more money in any form and certainly not in the form of residuals which he appears to consider... well... uncapitalistic?  I can&#039;t quite tell what the issue is.   Greedy?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Troeltsch: Right, his argument would be fine if it was merely that residuals are not (or should not be) a good means of paying writers.  Instead, a slightly higher up front payment (shifting some risk away from the writers and onto the producers) would be a reasonable alternative.  </p>
<p>If his argument had been that, however, I doubt he would have concluded with &#8220;Do your job, get paid, go home… shut the hell up.&#8221;  I think his argument was that writers don&#8217;t deserve more money in any form and certainly not in the form of residuals which he appears to consider&#8230; well&#8230; uncapitalistic?  I can&#8217;t quite tell what the issue is.   Greedy?</p>
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		<title>By: DoorFrame</title>
		<link>http://www.rumorsdaily.com/2007/11/14/not-the-daily-show/#comment-2222</link>
		<dc:creator>DoorFrame</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Nov 2007 19:55:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rumorsdaily.com/2007/11/14/not-the-daily-show/#comment-2222</guid>
		<description>And, 19,000 views later, we&#039;re now off the front page of reddit.   I&#039;m sure my host will be happy about that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And, 19,000 views later, we&#8217;re now off the front page of reddit.   I&#8217;m sure my host will be happy about that.</p>
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		<title>By: Troeltsch</title>
		<link>http://www.rumorsdaily.com/2007/11/14/not-the-daily-show/#comment-2221</link>
		<dc:creator>Troeltsch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Nov 2007 19:47:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rumorsdaily.com/2007/11/14/not-the-daily-show/#comment-2221</guid>
		<description>Brad&#039;s argument isn&#039;t that silly if the debate were between getting residuals and not getting residuals, since one can debate the merits of large single up-front payments vs. small up-fronts and continued residuals for the life of the product, but that isn&#039;t the issue anymore. The studios agreed long ago (maybe in 1988?) to give residuals to writers, and nobody (except Brad, it seems) thinks writers should get zero residuals. There are (at least) two numbers to be considered in this deal, how much money for up-front work, and how much for incentive pay. Both are valid payment schemes if sides have agreed they are valid, and thus both are subject to periodic negotiation, which is what&#039;s going on now. 

Brad, writers aren&#039;t the only people in society with performance-based incentives (which is what residuals are). Aside from other people involved in movies and tv shows (producers, actors, editors, maybe even some of the crew) you can count fund managers (salary for managing the fund; bonus for fund performing well), insurance agents (salary for selling insurance, small percentage for as long as client keeps the policy), any employee who gets stock as part of a salary deal (company does better = more money). Whether or not you agree that this type of compensation structure is just, there is certainly wide precedent for it. There is even an argument to be made that if an ad or logo or layout you design nets your client large profits you should get a piece of the action. Perhaps you can band your fellow designers together to unionize!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brad&#8217;s argument isn&#8217;t that silly if the debate were between getting residuals and not getting residuals, since one can debate the merits of large single up-front payments vs. small up-fronts and continued residuals for the life of the product, but that isn&#8217;t the issue anymore. The studios agreed long ago (maybe in 1988?) to give residuals to writers, and nobody (except Brad, it seems) thinks writers should get zero residuals. There are (at least) two numbers to be considered in this deal, how much money for up-front work, and how much for incentive pay. Both are valid payment schemes if sides have agreed they are valid, and thus both are subject to periodic negotiation, which is what&#8217;s going on now. </p>
<p>Brad, writers aren&#8217;t the only people in society with performance-based incentives (which is what residuals are). Aside from other people involved in movies and tv shows (producers, actors, editors, maybe even some of the crew) you can count fund managers (salary for managing the fund; bonus for fund performing well), insurance agents (salary for selling insurance, small percentage for as long as client keeps the policy), any employee who gets stock as part of a salary deal (company does better = more money). Whether or not you agree that this type of compensation structure is just, there is certainly wide precedent for it. There is even an argument to be made that if an ad or logo or layout you design nets your client large profits you should get a piece of the action. Perhaps you can band your fellow designers together to unionize!</p>
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		<title>By: DoorFrame</title>
		<link>http://www.rumorsdaily.com/2007/11/14/not-the-daily-show/#comment-2217</link>
		<dc:creator>DoorFrame</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Nov 2007 18:11:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rumorsdaily.com/2007/11/14/not-the-daily-show/#comment-2217</guid>
		<description>Brad: That&#039;s a silly argument. They are in the midst of a contract negotiation and management is offering the writers less than the writers are willing to work for.  Why does it matter if it&#039;s called residuals or salary?  If the studios were offering them $1000 per script and they were requesting $5000 per script, should they just give up and take the $1000 because that was what was initially offered?  

When you, as a graphic designer, are offered work below what you consider the value of your work to be, do you take the job because, hey, someone offered you a job?  Are you morally bound to take any work that&#039;s put in front of you?  

Residuals are the issue, but thinking of residuals as bonus pay just confuses the conflict.  The real issue is that the management wants the writers to write for less than the writers think their writing is worth.  They&#039;re not bad people for thinking their labor has a certain value.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brad: That&#8217;s a silly argument. They are in the midst of a contract negotiation and management is offering the writers less than the writers are willing to work for.  Why does it matter if it&#8217;s called residuals or salary?  If the studios were offering them $1000 per script and they were requesting $5000 per script, should they just give up and take the $1000 because that was what was initially offered?  </p>
<p>When you, as a graphic designer, are offered work below what you consider the value of your work to be, do you take the job because, hey, someone offered you a job?  Are you morally bound to take any work that&#8217;s put in front of you?  </p>
<p>Residuals are the issue, but thinking of residuals as bonus pay just confuses the conflict.  The real issue is that the management wants the writers to write for less than the writers think their writing is worth.  They&#8217;re not bad people for thinking their labor has a certain value.</p>
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